Guest interview with Former Disability Discrimination Commissioner, Graeme Innes

Transcript

14 December 2014

Roberta: As more and more people come to rely on smart phones and computers in their daily lives the accessibility of websites and applications, or apps as they're commonly called, has become increasingly important. Despite this many websites and apps remain inaccessible. Former Disability Discrimination Commissioner, Graeme Innes, joins Media Access Australia as a guest today to share his recent experience of an inaccessible app. Welcome, Graeme. Now, you recently announced that you intended to take Westpac to the Human Rights Commission because of an inaccessible app. Could you tell us more about that?

Graeme: Well, it's my banking app and I've been using that app for three or four years now, I think, and using it very successfully and done all my banking and the problem with the app occurred when Westpac upgraded it. Sadly, this often happens. They changed from a button on the front screen of the app, which gives you access to the app once you've keyed in your password and user name. They changed to the generic Apple go button. The go button wasn't showing up on the screen of my phone, so effectively they locked me out of my bank.

Roberta: Oh, dear, in a more general sense, how big an issue is the accessibility of websites and applications on smart phones and other devices?

Graeme: Well, the ones that are accessible are great. I use my smart phone for all sorts of things, delegation, banking, browsing the internet, conducting my email business, reading books, waking me up in the morning, using skype. I just have a whole lot of uses for it.

Roberta: Now, if our listeners encounter a similar challenge with app accessibility, Graeme, what can they do?

Graeme: Well, I mean, what I did was a couple of things. Firstly, I contacted Westpac and they initially told me that they would be upgrading the app and they were aware of the problem but it wouldn't occur until January, so I said, well, that means that I can't do my banking over the Christmas holiday period. So I wrote a blog about it and I lodged a complaint under the Disability Discrimination Act. I should tell you the end of the story, Roberta, which is that Westpac have done some significant investigations on the issue and I've actually blogged about this again last week because they have discovered that the problem with the go button is the fact that it's not compatible with braille keyboards. So when I had my keyboard connected to my phone that's what was causing the go button to not be there. As soon as I disconnected the keyboard the go button was there. So it's a compatibility issue between IOS8, the latest iPhone version, and braille keyboards. So they've raised this with Apple and in the meantime, until Apple fixed the problem, they're going to go back to another way of entering the app. I've got a workaround, which is just disconnect my keyboard into the app and then reconnect my keyboard. Westpac are very focused on access and they actually took my issue very seriously once I lodged the complaint and blogged about it and they've turned it around in a week or two. It's a great example of whether you drop the ball. It's how you go about picking it up again.

Roberta: Exactly. Now, disability advocate, Stella Young, recently passed. Could you share your thoughts on her contribution to improving access and life for people with disabilities?

Graeme: Well, Stella's death was a huge loss to the disability sector in Australia and international. She was a great speaker and writer, wonderful communicator, very funny woman who used comedy to convey very powerful advocacy messages. I guess her messages were, look, it's not really about our disability. It's the barriers that you as a community construct that are the things that get in our way. She spent a lot of her life breaking those barriers down and I wrote a piece for The Guardian about Stella and her life and I said, "You can't leave us now. We need you." And we really do and it's going to require a number of people to step up to replace the great contribution that she made over her short life. She was only 32.

Roberta: That's right, yes. I think the last time I saw her was at a function north of Melbourne here and you were there as well. She just looked so chirpy and happy.

Graeme: I saw her four days before she died, Roberta.

Roberta: It was an aneurism, I believe.

Graeme: Yeah, so it happened very quickly and my only … no, I have a whole lot of regrets but I thought at the time, last Wednesday night, oh, look, there's a big crowd here, it's a bit busy. I won't try and say hello to her now. I'll text her before Christmas. Of course, that's not going to happen.

Roberta: Graeme, since finishing up as Disability Commissioner, you have been kept quite busy. Can you tell us about some of your ongoing advocacy work?

Graeme: I've been doing a lot of conference presentations and really continuing the work I did at the Commission because my position has been downgraded by the Government and as hard as Susan Ryan is working it is her second job and she doesn't have experience of disability. I suppose I've continued in a lot of similar roles but one of the things I've done is taken on the chairmanship of the Attitude Australia Foundation. We're an organisation which is going to use television and film to change attitudes toward people with disability because we think that it's attitude that's the problem. For a series of six programs we'll start on the ABC on 27 December, on Saturday night at 6:30. If you don't go out partying in Melbourne on Saturday nights, Roberta, you can watch it.

Roberta: I will certainly be doing that, Graeme, and thank you for talking with us today.

Graeme: My pleasure and the best for the festive season for you and your listeners.

Roberta: Thank you, Graeme. I was speaking there with the former Disability Discrimination Commissioner, Graeme Innes. Media Access Australia offers a range of services to help make your online content accessible. You can visit www.mediaaccess.org.au/professional-services or you can call 02 9212 6242. Media Access Australia is a supporter of this program.

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